Thought as a Direct Experience : A Discussion
Think of a cup. The thought is perceived in sensation. The image of a cup is not; it is only a picture of a cup in your mind. But the thought is a real thought.
Think of a real cup in your kitchen. The cup in the kitchen is real; the cup in the thought, the picture, is not.
The thought of this cup Points to a real cup in the kitchen, but the cup in the mind is not real.
The Thought is Real; it's Content is not.
For me, there is no difference between the thought and it's contents. They appear as the same item.
But they are NOT. There is thought, and there is its content. The contents of your thoughts are all different. You have many many thoughts, which you perceive; they are all about something different. Not the same item at all!
Can we go back to the picture analogy. The picture of a cup is not the cup, similarly thought of a castle is not the castle... is that what you mean? the picture is real but the cup isn’t. The cup is the content of the picture. The image contained in the thought is imaginary, not real. The thought itself is experienced and is real.
Mind labels the picture 'a picture. It has reality as I can touch it. Measure it's dimensions. Get it valued at an art gallery. I can't touch a thought.
We can sell the picture of the cup but not the cup for it isn’t here.
The image in your thought does not have dimensions; it cannot be touched. The thought itself cannot be touched, but it can be perceived, or sensed.
Certainly a thought can be perceived or sensed. Does that make it real?
You are talking of a thought of the picture which has a cup. I meant thought is like a picture which is real. the content of the picture (or thought) is a cup which is not real.
So, direct experience like a kiss or a hug is real but thinking about them is not, although the thought of a hug is very real and can have the similar pleasant experience until the movie is over.
The analogy you offer must surely be incorrect. A picture of a cup can be viewed as two separate items. I know that the cup is not real. But I can see the picture and it is real.
In my mind I know that my imagined cup is not real. However, there is no container. The thought is of the cup. There is nothing real here.
The thought of a hug is real????
Close your eyes and think of a cup. You can experience the image of the cup even though you cannot see it.
You are NOT viewing the image in the mind with the eyes in the head.
Its the thought about a thought that may be tripping you
Perhaps. Could you could tell me the difference between a thought, and the content of a thought?
I am thinking of you right now. This is a real thought. But the content, you, is not here, not real.
How do you know?
I can write it down, I can tell you, I can remember it.
I see the problem; you want to use the five senses to define reality of thought. That can only be done indirectly like if I am angry at you.
If you could read my mind like both of us can touch the cup, then it would be easy for you to verify that my thought is real.
I think it's just a confusion over language used. If you simply mean thoughts are perceived, in the way all other senses operate then sure. I can’t think of any way to directly make you feel my thought but you could feel your own thought so it is a direct experience. Again like memory of a nice hug. It might also be a problem with the word 'real'.
It is deeper than that. In fact all senses eventually get recognised by arousing a feeling within. In that way, thoughts are no different.
Body/mind takes the content of the thought to be real, even though it is not.
"Thought" is a pretty primitive term. "Mental visual image" might be more accurate for this kind of thought. Thoughts come in all shapes, sizes and complexities with mixes of visual, sound and feeling. There is no particular distinction of content from the thought itself, the content IS the thought. However, there are aspects to the thought that can be set aside: location, size etc.
But if the contents themselves, like I, me or self, or even false things like Santa and the unicorn, find no definition by other senses , then the thought may be considered real but not its contents.